Email Engagement and Personalization with Eric Rausch

Introduction to Personalization

0:00Personalization is designed to increase engagement by definition. Is the right message to the right person at the right time saying or featuring the right product or the right copy. That's what it is. It's designed to increase engagement which as we know rolls up to revenue. The lingering question you need to ask yourself when you're looking at things like this is does this engagement lead to revenue? It might not. It might. You need to ask yourself and test and find out and confirm. The second question is, what incremental revenue does this personalization activate? And is that juice worth the squeeze? So, let's say you create all of these things, you launch it, it does well, you make $2,000 extra, you feel really good about yourself, you're very happy, it clearly worked. What if that took 20 hours for you to activate? Is it worth it? That's on you to decide. What's going on, guys? I'm Eric,

Meet Eric from New Standard Agency

0:52co-founder of New Standard Agency. That's a retention agency that focuses on eight, nine, and 10 figure brands. apologies for the camera angle. I just got back from Turkey getting a hair transplant like four days ago, so I'm sparing you looking at my head. But if we look at this, it's coming up. Great. Can we see it? Amazing. So, you guys know me. Let's talk about the paradox of

The Paradox of Personalization

1:20personalization or the personalization paradox. More work for less revenue. Here's what I mean by that. When you have a little bit of personalization, you typically see a lot of incremental money with not a lot of time spent. Think first aim personalization on the subject line. Think send time optimization. Small things. The longer you get into personalization, the more time you have to spend on it and the less incremental money you'll typically receive. So the paradox of personalization is where is that sweet spot where you can find the most amount of incremental money for the least amount of incremental work. Let's look at these emails here. These are what we consider the gold standard of personalization.

2:09You have these Spotify wrapped emails that everyone shares. You have Southwest Airlines loyalty year and review. There's Dunkin Donuts year and review. These are designed to go viral on social. They're designed to be super sharable. A brand moment to reinforce the value of your loyalty to that brand. The brand wants to show you, the customer who's getting this email, that we know you very well. We're talking to you directly. Each of these individual bullet points are typically very dynamically personalized for your experience. These look beautiful, right?

2:41These are amazing. Everyone knows these. Everyone loves them. Here's the harsh reality of personalization. I built myself that

Case Study: Dunkin' Donuts Email Campaign

2:49Dunkin Donuts email on the left. It was a Dunkin Donuts year and review email. We partnered with Movable Inc. if you're familiar with them. We connected the DD Perks app to the Movable Inc. back end. We had about a million rows of Excel spreadsheet. Each of these individual things that you're seeing, winter, spring, summer, fall, breakfast, lunch, whatever, right? Loyalty friend, all of those things are personal, dynamic images related to that individual person. Nobody got the exact same email because it was different to you. This was a cool moment. I love this email. I'm very proud of it. This, I believe, won Movable Inc.'s personalized email of the quarter in 2016 or whatever it is. Here's the truth. This email made almost no money. It was not supposed to make money, but it took me about a hundred hours of manpower to make this email. So, the question you need to ask yourself is, as a brand, as a worker, as whoever, do you have time to have someone on your team dedicate a 100red

3:53hours of work for a brand moment? Ask yourself that question. So the goal here

Defining Goals for Personalization

3:57is what are your goals of personalization? What I mean by this is people hear the word personalization at a a webinar, a podcast, a conference, a seminar, whatever. This one right here for example, and you go, great, this sounds amazing. I love all these stats. I need to do this. We need to personalize. What does that mean? Right? You come back to your team and you say, "We need to personalize." They go, "What does that mean?" You just sent your team into a frenzy. They have no idea what you mean. What are you optimizing for?

4:23What's your goal of personalization? Are you trying to improve improve your revenue? Okay. If a non-personalized experience outperforms your personalized experience in form of revenue, are you going to stop doing personalization? Are you going to test again? If your goal is to create a curated experience, a great onetoone connection with the brand. How do you test for that? How do you measure the success of someone who goes, "Wow, I'm super ingrained with this brand. You know me so well. I love it." Right? How do you test for that? Are you doing a post-purchase survey? How do you engage with these people? Is it to increase engagement? Right? Every everyone wants to increase engagement of their metrics.

5:02That's the entire goal of basically every single thing we do. Doesn't that roll up into increased revenue? Isn't that the purpose of increased engagement KPIs? What if a non-personalized experience outperforms that in terms of revenue? What do you do then? And the last thing is really, you know, circle back. Do you have no clue what your goals are, what you're optimizing for? You just heard it. You think it sounds cool, it sounds logical, and you tell your team, "Let's personalize." If you don't know what you're optimizing for, you can't optimize for it. Your team doesn't know what they're doing, and they don't know if they're trending towards that goal. To paraphrase from the documentary Harry Potter, personalization, for the sake of personalization, must be discouraged.

The Importance of Data in Personalization

5:43However, to get any sort of personalization, you need data. Personalization is just the use of data points for the person you're speaking to. You need to source the data. You need to own the data. You need the data to be accessible. You need the data to be insightful. And you need the data to be actionable. Without all of those, you can't really do anything with it. If you tell me, let's say I'm selling collagen. If you tell me that I have 172,000 people in my list that are left-handed, what am I supposed to do with information? Right? That's personalized.

6:16That's a data point about my list, but I can't do anything with it. Who cares? If you tell me that I have 200,000 people in that list who are signed up for a 12week booty boot camp program and are looking to lose weight and they've raised their hand, now we're cooking. We have personalization. We have a data point very related to the brand. Now, we can activate it and really see some incremental revenue. then you tell me in the in the following sentence, unfortunately that's not really tagged in Shopify. We don't have any profile properties that connect them to that.

6:50So, we don't actually know who the 20 200,000 people are. We just know that they exist. What am I supposed to do with information, right? We're back to useless data again. So, there's levels to this. There's levels to sourcing your data and owning your data. Here's just a routine look at what personalization entails, right? What is personalization? Each of these are snippets of time that are interchangeable depending on how far down the rabbit hole you want, right?

7:20Everyone thinks first name personalization. That's where they think. They think send time, segmentation, maybe buyer, non- buyer. But depending how you want to build, strategize, optimize, execute, and adapt, each of these can flow within each of them. To set up a new per post-purchase, cross-ell, upsell, test, AB test, right? That could take five minutes. But to set that up from scratch, you need to strategize, know the data, activate the data, find out what customers are buying, find out what they're buying next, activate that data in a kickoff, design the kickoff, put it into Clavio or Omnisend or whatever ESP you're using, and then launch it. Right?

8:00So, how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go on each of these? There's more lowhanging fruit than others. Most of these work well for most brands. Some of these work exceptionally for some brands and some of these won't work exceptionally for some brands. Unless you test and test again, you really have no clue what's going to move the needle or not incrementally. And you need to test, right? So all of this is really asking yourself how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go. And all of these are designed to increase engagement, right? Personalization is designed to increase engagement. By definition, it is the right message to the right person at the right time saying or featuring the right product or the right copy.

8:50That's what it is. It's designed to increase engagement, which as we know rolls up to revenue. The lingering question you need to ask yourself when you're looking at things like this is, does this engagement lead to revenue? It might not. It might. You need to ask yourself and test and find out and confirm. The second question is what incremental revenue does this personalization activate and is that juice worth the squeeze? So, let's say you create all of these things. You launch it. it does well. You make $2,000 extra. You feel really good about yourself. You're very happy. It clearly worked. What if that took 20 hours for you to activate? Is it worth it? That's on you to decide. The stats clearly say personalization works anecdotally, industry-wise, everyone knows. When I get a subject line that's unique to me, it says my name. When I see a product that's unique to something I just bought, when I see an abandonment product that I just looked at, typically engagement will go up. 26% are more

9:53likely to open a personalized subject line than not. Everyone who's tested this probably can confirm this is true. works for most brands. Not every brand, not every time, but for the most part, it does. Right? These are all directional. When you see an an engaged email from you with products that you're looking at for things that you've you've told the brand that you like, maybe it's a subscription product that you're currently subscribed to, you're going to see a higher click rate, right?

10:17Personalized emails have a 14% higher click rate through non-personalized emails. Fantastic. We love click rate. We love open rate. The entire point of personalization is to increase open rate, increase click rate, increase website conversion rate, increase revenue, right? The golden equation of e-commerce. But there's a downside to personalization, too. If you don't own,

Challenges and Best Practices in Personalization

10:41source, implement, and have the data accessible, and it's wrong, right? Look at this stat here. 63% of customers will stop buying from a brand that use poor personalization tactics. What if I subscribed to a dual men's and women's clothing company? They predictively analytically thought that I was a woman and kept sending me female clothing items. I go, I I didn't subscribe to this. Why do you guys keep sending me, you know, Alo yoga pants? That's a a bad experience that may lose a customer in me. If I get personalized data, let's say you sourced from somewhere that it's my birthday, you're like, "Wow, this guy would really like a 10% off birthday coupon message given to them as a discount to our store to convert." In my head, I might be. I didn't give you my birthday. How the hell do you know that information about me? That could be creepy, right? There's also these things where you can be walking by a store, as it says here, and get a geo tagged SMS.

11:39So now you're thinking, "Wow, this brand is tracking my location." That could be a little bit creepy. And anyone here who's, let's say, director level and below, who's on that W2, 43% of marketers identified budget and resource constraints as the top challenge in delivering personalized experiences. Raise your hand if you if this applies to you. When the leadership comes back from their webinars and seminars and podcasts or whatever and says we need to personalize, that means I need to personalize, right? They're telling me the email marketing manager, I need personalization. One, what does that mean? Two, I I just know that's a lot of work for me to do. So, do I have the time to do it? Let me highlight what personalization means in terms of revenue. Most of the time, there's the paradox, right? A little bit of personalization generates a lot of incremental revenue for not a lot of time. A lot of personalization, maybe a little bit more incremental revenue for a ton more time.

12:39How much is that time worth to you? Here's where personalization shines.

Effective Personalization Strategies

12:44I'll give you some examples here. A textbased email from a specific person, right? We hear Eric Mir from Built Basics. If I told you how much revenue this email made, it would blow your mind. Everyone knows a textbased email specifically during like a sale period on Black Friday, let's say, really moves the needle. It feels personal. In this particular instance, he's talking about the founders collection, which is very personal to him. Talks about the origin story. The customer feels like they're part of this journey. They feel very interconnected. It's a great email.

13:16Textbased emails crush. Textbased emails also need to be from a person typically maybe with the sender name also adjusted to that person. So, it feels very onetoone. Abandonment flows. Let's look at carowway. Hi there. That could be a first name. It wasn't because my name's not in there, but we're looking at these are boards that I've looked at. Cutting board, sauté pan, mini fry pan. I can click on each of these, return to my cart, and the curated experience is already there for me. I'm like, "Wow, Carryway is already tracking my cart is ready for me to check out, and I can just check out in one click because my kid started screaming and I forgot to check out." Right? We can also break

Personalization in Action: Examples and Tips

13:55down these abandonment flows with buyer versus prospect breakdowns, right? If we know that they're a buyer, they maybe don't need a social proof slice in there, but if they're a prospect, maybe they do need it. If we're looking at this built email on the right, this is a post-purchase email. It specifically highlights the products in your cart that you just purchased and how to take care of them. That's really amazing to me. If I go, I just bought 16 built drop cuts. The last thing I want to do is maybe put them in the dryer and ruin all of them. This email tells me exactly how I need to care for them as they're on their way to my house so I know when I get them. Tumble dry low, hang dry, wash without, you know, colors, whatever it might be. This is a fantastic email.

14:40Let's look at SandCloud here. If I came and purchased from Sandcloud 15 times, and each time I got an email that said, "Welcome to Sandcloud. Thanks for purchasing." I'm like, "This brand doesn't know anything about me, right? I've I'm a loyal customer. I've been buying from them for five years. Why am I still getting the same email?" But right here in a very simple content tweak, we see we're pumped to see you again. Boom. SoundCloud knows that I'm a returning customer. They've identified me as a returning customer.

15:09They're speaking to me as a returning customer. I feel a little bit more loved to see you again. They remember me. If you look on the bottom, we see loyalty points. Great reminder. I'm someone who has signaled to Sandcloud that I'm willing to come back and purchase again. Why not show me in these bottom tiers how I can earn loyalty points, how many loyalty points I have, and how I can do discounts on those loyalty points for my next purchase. Fantastic. Amazing. Let's look at retail store locator. Let's say Built Basics has a store in Cherry Creek right next to me in Denver. Every time I get a Built Basics email and I don't want to purchase from Built online, I'm going on vacation in two days. It's not going to get to me on time. There could be a snippet on there that says Built Basics is 15 miles away from you. I click on that. I see it's Cherry Creek in Denver. I go and I shop. I get my clothes. I go on vacation. I'm rocking

16:03Built the whole time. I love it. I'm I'm fired up. Let me put you on to some quick personalization game about the welcome flow discount reminder to really get you guys some revenue. If you offer a 20% welcome code, let's say if I am a customer and I or let's say a prospect, right? And I haven't purchased before

Post-Purchase Personalization Strategies

16:22and I purchase but I didn't use the 20% off code that you gave me. Sneaky little post-purchase flow for you. If you're a brand and you tell me, "Hey, I see you purchased 8 days ago. You didn't use your 20% welcome code that we gave you, but we'd love for you to come back and use it." reminder. Here it is. Talk about some brand loyalty that that would foster with me, right? You guys reminded me that I didn't have a code. Maybe you even just discounted it retroactively and told me. If you don't want to do that, imagine if every single campaign you sent after that had a little snippet that said, "Don't forget your welcome series discount." And we're just talking about BAU evergreen emails. But I know that you know that you're offering me the discount that you've already offered me to sign up. You're looking after me.

17:13You want to take care of me. That's how you form brand loyalty through personalization. Here's where

Effective Use of Personalization in Emails

17:19personalization doesn't shine. If you send the same email over and over again with the same subject line, hey Eric, Eric, Eric, hey Eric, then it's just part of the game, right? Nothing stands out. If you send a textbased email to me every single day, then what actually stands out is a graphic based email. You need to break up your your content so it resonates with the customer when they see it. If you waited for firstname personalization for the really big moments, whether it's a new product launch, Black Friday VIP, welcome sale, whatever it is, but a big moment captures my name and now I'm like, "Wow, Charlotte's Web is talking to me on a firstname basis. This email must be important." But here's the other question. The welcome flow. What what are you personalizing for? You know nothing about me. What are you personalizing for? All of these questions need to be asked every time you want to personalize. What am I personalizing for? A product launch. If I'm a a woman shopping at Aloe Yoga,

18:21let's say, and I only buy women's clothes, and they're launching a men's bomber jacket, and they personalize me out because I I don't fit the men's bomber jacket segmentation. What if I have a boyfriend or a husband? He would look fantastic in that bomber jacket. Why are you segmenting me out of that experience? A Black Friday sale. What would be a reason outside of obviously unengagement to segment someone out of the Black Friday sale? You're offering it to everyone. It's going to be on the website. So, why would you personalize, right? What's the difference if it's a sitewide sale? Getting even broken down further is we're looking at these conditional splits. This is one snippet of a flow that I work on in Clavio. If you were to zoom out, you'd see about 80 more emails in there. That's profile properties, that's conditional splits, that's use cases, that's cart value, that's all these things that wrap up into one single flow. That also means if one thing needs to be edited in that flow for any brand reason, that requires

19:26me to edit 200 plus emails instead of just one, right? Incomplete, inaccurate

Challenges and Considerations in Personalization

19:32data, creepy and intrusive. And then SMS credits, email and SMS are not the same channel. They should not be treated as the same channel. They cost different, but they're same same but different, right? Personalization requires data points. It requires pulling in different things and could also drastically increase your SMS credit payment. So, watch out for there. I don't care what anyone needs to tell me.

The Role of Pop-Ups in Data Collection

19:56Personalization in the retention world starts with the popup. We're collecting zero party data for the first time in our retention space. It starts with the popup, right? So, let's start forming some personality profiles. Aaliyah, a fantastic sponsor of this event. I've worked with them on many brands as you see here with AVI and Nike Strength make beautiful popups. They do fantastic work. Customer service out of this world. These popups typically have fantastic CVR. They provide the first instance of zero party data and they're great, right? They're beautiful. They're engaging. So, there's two questions you need to ask yourself as your first entrance into the world of personalization.

20:38Are these pop-ups hurting my pop-up CVR from what it used to be? Yes or no? Probably not. Are these questions hurting my website CVR? Right? There's two things that are directly related to each other. Is your pop-up converting better? Yes or no? Is this pop-up helping or hurting your website? But further than that, the question now becomes, let's take Nike strength for example. I select I'm here for apparel and hats. Fantastic. That's great. Perfect data. I just gave it to Nike strength to use. What am I going to do with it? Right? What what's the next step for me to use it now? What it's to target their need states, right? In my opinion, wrong. Just because you have this data doesn't mean that you need to do anything with it. The the perils of early personalization means you don't know anything about these customers besides what they just selected. They're interested in. Customers don't really know what they want. They don't know what you sell. They don't know your whole category. They don't know your

21:39brand. They don't know what you're offering. And even if they do, they can still be educated and want other things to improve their AOV. Right? Let me tell you a secret of the veterans of the game and retention. Very, very, very few things outperform a BAU email template that's tested methodically, strategically, and intentionally in perpetuity. Those templates crush. So,

Testing and Optimizing Personalization

22:08as we talk about how to use personalization, the perils of early personalization are in the welcome series. Now, we formated for those four answers that you could have given us. Lose fat, build muscle, whatever, apparel hats, anything. We're messaging them specifically about their need state that they told us they were interested in. Let me blow your mind. The 5050 split here between this email and the other emails that are broken out by need states, the BAU email smoked them. That doesn't mean the data is wrong. That doesn't mean the customers wrong. It just means that in a BAU email in the welcome series specifically, you can highlight the best products, the exact thing the customer needs to know, you can also realistically highlight all four of those categories in one email and it outperforms. So, this goes back up to the initial question. If this outperforms your personalized experience, what do you do? Do you test again? Do you scrap personalization? or is it just not the time because it's the welcome series to personalize. It's not

23:15like they say if you don't use it, you don't lose it. What you need to do is test, test, test, test, and test. So, what have you heard versus what have you tested, right? We go back to that stat category and we know that people generally engage with personalization. Are they engaging with your specific personalization for your specific brand? Yes or no? Let's go through one flow

Implementing Personalization in Email Flows

23:44here and start speeding up. The levels of the game are simple for like an abandoned cart flow. Tier one almost no effort. Single flow time delay split. Let's say 1 hour and 6 hours. You highlight your best sellers, which is great. Dynamic CTA lead to cart. No dynamic, no personalization in there really. Next tier, a little bit more time. prospects and buyers split talking about whether they need a social proof slice or not or whether they are just coming back to buy again. Right now you're featuring dynamic products where you're highlighting each of the pros and cons or the things that they looked at.

24:19Dynamic CTA back to the cart. The third tier multiple vaults right now we're looking at retention.com we're looking at Revro. looking at blotout, elevar, whatever. And our typical Shopify triggers, the same buyer prospect splits, the same dynamic products. Now you can do a free shipping split where it's broken up in between if they've exceeded the cart value of free shipping or not. Very sneaky tactic that I would highly recommend or a category split where you're highlighting what products they're looking at. And again, dynamic CTA to cart. This stuff takes time. It takes so much time. So, are you a brand

Evaluating Your Brand's Capacity for Personalization

24:55that can personalize? Let's wrap up here. Are you a brand that can personalize? Do you have actionable data you can leverage? Is the data in your your ESP that you can actionize? If not, you can't do it right. So now you need to get it there. Once you get it there, ask yourself these questions. How large is my retention team? How many people of these are working on these accounts day in that have bandwidth to do any of these things? Because as we just talked about, all of this takes a ton of time.

25:25Do you have as a brand the desire, capability, or belief that someone on your team can be spending hours upon hours building out a beautiful email that might not necessarily make more money? You need to ask yourself this question. If your team is constantly editing and pivoting and doing content changes because your content calendar keeps fluctuating, they don't have time to do personalization. It's just not in the cards. So you need to ask yourself, am I a brand that can personalize? What types of personalization am I looking for? And what is the goal of this personalization? Personalization equals opportunity. We know there's money to be made with proper personalization. The opportunity is time factor because time is money and it's incremental revenue because revenue is money. Duh. Who's doing this personalization? To wrap up,

Choosing the Right Team for Personalization

26:17you have your in-house employees, you have your fractional freelancers, and you have your agency specialists. Your in-house employees can do it. They're close to the brand. They know all these things. However, they're stuck in meetings non-stop. They have other brand initiatives they have to work on. They have a rank set of priorities. And I promise you, the goals of your director levels and below employees aren't the goals of your leadership. No matter how much you want to convince yourself that that they are a fractional from freelancer can come in. But the question there is, are you hiring a strategist?

26:50Are they coming in to work with your design team? Are you hiring a strategist and a designer? Do they know each other? Are you hiring a strategist, designer, and imple? Do they know each other? Are they working with your team? How do they interact with each other? The difference between in-house, freelancer, and specialists are your in-house team has very specific goals and KPIs that they've discussed with you as a leadership program in general. But your freelancers and specialists, they are clearly operating on the mandates that you give them. They're hired mercenaries to do the specific task that you tell them to. If you tell them, I want to increase personalization, I want to increase revenue, I want to increase repeat purchase rate, I want to lower increase my rebuild rate, right? All of these things, they come in with a very specific task and they're very aligned in what you're looking for and they work with your team on how to execute. To wrap up, personalization is the past, is

Final Thoughts on Personalization

27:51the present, and is the future. There will never not be a time for personalization. It's just how to use your time most effectively. Personalization there. Like I I one of the core questions, let me get my camera up here. One of the core questions that we asked people was like, are you are you personally executing the campaign or are you managing someone that's executing the campaigns? That last slide and you and I talked about this earlier was like when you have someone that's not working for you specifically and they are going to be mercenary for you, right? hired hire an assassin is how do you get them to be like guys I need you to be more personal because sometimes they push back and this is what I've personally experienced from my team to other brands or from from my in-house people they go I don't know the brand well enough to actually make it personal what how do you how do you overcome that objection for someone that you're telling I need you to be more personal I

28:44need you to go deeper in getting that first part information so that my messages resonate better how do you how would you talk someone through that that's a fantastic question typically ally a proficient agency or freelancer has multiple brands that they've done this for. They know the processes of how to acquire that information. They know what personalization works, right? We talked about in that one slide, there's 800 different ways you can personalize. Not all of them work. Some of them don't work at all. So, they know, hey, in your industry, clothing, let's say, these 15 things I've known work really well. Let me get this data for you. Let me find a way to host this data for you. and let me execute this data for you. And at the same time, a savvy anyone, whether that's in-house freelancer or strategist at an agency would say, what's your goal of personalization? If you say it's to increase revenue, that's my mission to me. Whether that's using personalization or not is irrelevant. If it helps, I'm

29:43going to do it, right? If my goal is to increase revenue and personalization helps, I'm going to rip it. If it doesn't, I'm going to blow the doors off. Just regular BAU testing. Do you think that if I'm an internal person that manages it myself? And you're like, "Okay, and I'm I'm like just about to dip my toes into increasing the personalization of messages, where would you tell them to start like do these things now? Where would you go?" sorry. Can you repeat the question one more time? Yeah. So, if I'm if I'm managing like I'm I'm a business owner and I already am doing everything else, the last thing I'm going to try and spend my time on is like go make more personalized emails. It's already working. So would you be like without you spending an excessive amount of time go do these specific things to increase personalization because the the there's low time investment but it's high ROI.

30:28Where would you tell them to start? definitely starting with the post-purchase to make sure that buyers are understanding that they're being treated as buyers repeat buyers and working on your abandons. Right? You're looking at most importantly your abandoned emails. one for site, browse, cart, and checkout. That email is going to move the most needle in terms of personalization more than anything else. So, if you can optimize your post purchase one or maybe two and abandon cart one, two, three, and four, abandoned cart, browse, checkout, and site, you're going to see the most ROI and KPI increase with those.

31:08That's exactly what I was like hoping because you can do there's so many flows. Where do I do it in which email? So, very clear. Thank you. One question that you got as well was what is the best strategy to collect the data needed to make personalization. simplest question I mean the answer is ask post-purchase fantastic way survey right you can use something like no commerce or whatever to get all of this data you need to know as a brand what am I optimizing for like let's take wind for example a fantastic way to use personalization is let's take breeze right if they cancel for whatever reason why did they cancel if you don't know that information then you can't object ction overrule the reason they cancelled. But if you ask them why they canceled in their cancellation survey and they say it's I too much product costs too much, I don't like the taste, I have a medical condition, whatever it is, then you can objection overrule each of those individual personalized reasons

32:10and win way more of your churn customers back. Yeah, this is good. This is what I was I was hoping to get into it because there's a little bit. First off, there's you you have at the beginning you can quiz them based on like why are you here? What are you shopping for? What are the problem that you're trying to solve? Two, no post-purchase. And three, in the popup like we're we're we're thinking about this too right now. The biggest the biggest thing is like are you buying for yourself or you buying for somebody else? Just having that initial segmentation at the beginning is such a different way of of getting someone to buy because now you're understanding that this is a huge giftable product rather than this is a a for me product. And the for me product can get a little bit more personal on the reasons why they should stick with it. Where if it's a product that they're not buying for themselves, you don't really want to go heavy on the

32:57education. You just want to make sure that they get the the right amount of buzzwords so that they can buy it for someone else. And so like this is very very important. any any last little thing? Let me check one second if I get one more question. Okay, my last one was you on the what did the stats say? This core one was like 72% of messenger or 72% of consumers engage exclusively with personalized messaging. If and I know you might not have this info, but I want you to hypothetically speak about this.

33:26Do you think it's email-based or SMS-based? It's I mean this could be great, right? because that could technically fall under transactional emails or SMSs, right? If it's a shipping notification, an order notification, that's 100% personalized and that's what you some people only subscribe to. typically, I would say that it's more applicable in the email space. There's a little bit more to do in the world of personalization via email than there is in SMS. but it really just depends on how you use it and the more you use SMS for personalization also the higher your credits are going to go. So you have to weigh that against too, right?

34:09Incremental revenue, incremental time, incremental cost in the platform. I appreciate this is it's so clear to know how deep you are in this game and how clear it is for you because a lot of people like I feel like this is the one that a lot of people are going to have to rewatch this back because their thought process on segmentation, first party data gathering and then personalization is like just tip of the iceberg because there's just so much more to go about and I guarantee you probably could build a two-hour talk on this versus just a 20 to 30 minute one.

34:36It was probably harder to take things away than add things in for you. Yeah. See you in Miami.