Women in Ecommerce: Leadership, Visibility, and Career Growth

Welcome and Setup

0:00There we go, clap it up. Get back. >> [music] >> Okay. Hey guys. So, as you can see, there's three females on the stage right now, which is a little bit different than most of the other sessions today. Don't freak out. >> Yeah, don't get >> Don't get worked up about it. We'll get worked up about it. >> last year I emailed Nick and I emailed Jimmy right after Commerce Roundtable in San Diego and let them know that I know a ton of rad females who are in e-commerce, they're founders, some of them are just amazing performance marketers, and that I would love to see them represented, and they paved the way and made sure that we're getting more sessions and that there's more visibility. So, I wanted us to each

Meet the Panelists

0:56just introduce ourselves, what we do, and then we're going to talk about what it's like to work with all of you guys every day. >> [laughter] >> So, Phoenix, do you want to go first? >> All right. Hey guys. I'm Phoenix. I feel like I know a lot of you in here and I've seen a lot of new faces, which has been amazing. But, I've been all over the spectrum. I've been agency side, brand side, experiential side, exited SAS, something that I co-founded, and then I went back to brand side at Instant Hydration. I feel like I've been able to see a lot of different facets and sit in a lot of seats and be blessed to but yeah, just a different perspective today.

1:36>> hi, my name is Alex Grayfeld. I spoke yesterday, but if you missed that, I'm a growth marketing consultant. I've been in the industry for close to 15 years. I started consulting in 2022, and before that, I worked on the brand side brand side pretty extensively. And mostly with brands in like the fashion and entertainment industry, but since then I've expanded to all kinds of different categories, every stage of growth from super small startups all the way up to major legacy brands, global names.

2:13So, happy to be having this conversation. >> And I'm Liz. I own a retention and life cycle agency called Nomad Marketing.

Know Your Worth

2:22okay. So, we're going to start with Phoenix and I want to know what's one like What's one thing that's altered your brain chemistry? One decision that you've made, one thing that you've done in the industry or something that just like flipped the switch for you that just made it click. >> Yeah, getting paid well. >> [laughter] >> You know, I know what I bring to the table and I think it's a very difficult conversation to have sometimes when I'm going this is my price.

2:53And most people are like, "Damn, that's really expensive." I've been able to see under the hood, guys. I know how we work. I I'm I've been blessed enough to be in the rooms to know how hard each one of you work, but I also know how hard I work. So, I put 150% if not 200% of myself into something. Sometimes a little bit crazy, I would say, and maybe exhaustive, but I think everybody in this room is a little bit neurotic in that sense. We love something, we execute really well, we get obsessive. I'm the same way. I just come at that price. I also know what I bring to the table. So, because of that and that click for me, I just stand firm. But I also execute extremely well and I have the data to prove it. So, that actually changed a lot for me. I used to be the type of person to be like, if somebody was like, "Oh, are you sure? That's like really expensive." I used to be like, "Oh, you

3:45you might you might be right. Am I like I might have to go back." And then I made I like I made a distinctive decision one day and I went "Wait a minute. He would never say that." And not to say that like men, women, whatever. I just think that wait a minute, I need to come into my own and that completely changed everything. And I think the people around me respected me more as well. So, that changed my DNA and then I think my career just took off as well, but I was also able to implement more change, too.

4:13>> And also like recognizing that that's just like good business to say no. Like sometimes it's good business for someone to be like, "Can you flex on this or is this is there any room in this pricing?" Like everybody does it to everyone. It's not just only happening to you. >> Oh, for sure, right? Everything's up for negotiation unless you don't make it a negotiation, but I think also, too, convince me otherwise and then we'll talk about lowering my price.

4:38>> [laughter] >> I think that's fair, right? But, yeah. >> Alex, anything you want to add?

Kids and Priorities

4:43>> In terms of things that changed my brain chemistry, I I would have to bring up having kids because that literally does change your brain chemistry. I think it really clarified my values and honestly, I don't think I would have had like the inner fortitude to go out on my own and become a consultant un- like if I had never had kids. because it's I I'm sure all of you, whether you're men or women, if you're parents, you can relate to that, that it's kind of like a before and after where like life really just snaps into focus afterwards. So, I'd say that it's, you know, it's made me it's made it clearer what work is for, where I can add value, and I just feel like I waste less time.

5:32>> Do you think that So, I know a lot of women like always ask, "Can you have it all?" Like, "Can you do it? Can you have kids? Can you have the career? Can you own the business? Can you have the healthy relationship?" Like, do you think having it all is possible or do you even think that that's like the right question? >> I mean, I think no one can have it all whether they have kids or not. What If you lock in in one area, everything else is going to suffer and it's more like you have seasons when you, you know, if you have a partner, they might need more support or if you have kids, they might need more support or there's a project or a launch coming up at work and that needs more support.

6:11And you'll kind of drop balls elsewhere and that's hopefully you know, the people that you're in relationships with romantic, familiar, whatever, they'll fail you in the same way because of their things that are going on and that's like the magic of human relationships and coexistence. So, I don't think that's even necessarily like a female specific question. It's for women it can be harder cuz there are more balls to keep in the air sometimes, but it's something that everyone has to figure out on their own.

6:42>> Okay, what are some experiences that

Gender Challenges at Work

6:45you've had in the industry, Phoenix, that you feel like maybe haven't been great? And they may have been because you were a woman in the space. >> You know what's funny? so many, but at the same time I don't let it distract me. Like I'll be so for real with you guys. Like 80% of the people in this room have been a been a big part of why I'm even allowed to be on the stage. So, really great experiences. It's like the 20% that really just it up for all of you and I I just want to apologize on your behalf. I think there's like some form of nervousness that happens cuz I don't know what it is, but there have been a lot of weird things that have been said to me.

7:27and I'll just say one right out front. Like screw it. I've been called a minority female. Like what's it like to be a minority female in the space? And I just kind of sit there and like, what the >> Nice. What does that look like? Nice. >> Right? Like weird like that where you're like, "Okay." I mean, I would love to say that to any of you and have the same reaction. but what I will say >> How did I react? I'm pretty brutal, guys. Like, if you're going to say something, I'm like, "You want to try again? I'll give you a a rerun." Yeah, I've had a lot of really weird things happen and but I also was a model. So, I experienced a lot of really uncomfortable situations at a really young age and I also have a really incredible mother that taught me how to navigate those situations. I also I'm a different type of person where I will straight up tell you, "Hey, this is how you treat me. This is not how you treat

8:18me." and the coolest people, men and women have stepped up to the plate and have been able to respect that. Right? If you screw up, cool. Like, let's just run it back. But if you choose to continuously be weird, you're probably going to be in this section. but like I said, the 80% which I'm so grateful for have been incredible and then also other women in the space I have talked to them. I'm like, "Yo, speak up. You can say something. Be like, 'Yeah, that was kind of weird. Do you agree?'" but yeah, that that's that's kind of how I've navigated it.

8:50Anything for you? >> I mean, honestly, no, which makes me think like were there actually things that happened and they just kind of like flew over my head? >> felt too. When I was talking to Alex earlier, I mean, Phoenix earlier, I was like, "I I don't think so." >> Yeah, I I before I started consulting, I did a lot of my work in the fashion industry and they tend to be more female-dominant environments, so maybe it's just like a numbers thing, but no, not really.

9:19>> I'm happy for you. >> That's like what I prefer. >> But for the girls that are here, the women that are here that it did happen, I see you. and then I kind of just want to like double-click. Like, you can be like, "Hey, that was weird. Don't do that." So.

Taking Up Space

9:33>> Alex, where do you think is a place that women play small in business. Like where should we like spread our elbows out and like settle in a little deeper and where take up more space to grow. >> Well, I don't know if this is It's hard for me to to speak on to say that this is like a specifically female thing, but one thing that I notice is that I got my start on social media like on X just by kind of like posting a lot and replying to people who were big accounts at the time and I I had like less than 500 followers and when I talk to other women about it, what I hear is like there's a lot of reluctance to get out there and post because it's it either it feels cringe or it's like they're concerned that someone's going to come back to them and be aggressive in response.

10:30I get that it's not for everyone, but if you have if you feel like your way of communicating or what you have to say kind of like aligns with one of those platforms, I think it's it's worth doing it because no one is I mean I've gotten in little snipy fights on on X with people, but no one's ever like threatened to kill me or anything. It's It's just e-commerce, man. >> Not yet. Don't worry. Keep going.

10:54Keep going. It'll get there. >> Yeah, Taylor Frankie Paul has showed us that you shouldn't be scared of being cringe cuz look at her. Look at her go. Phoenix, for you? >> Yeah. Yeah. I struggle with this. I think that everyone has a different experience. We were talking about this off offsite, right? Like my experience is going to be different from Liz's experience, which is going to be different from Alex's. I can't speak to their experiences.

11:25I have a more aggressive nature. That's just who I am. I'm a little bit more masculine in nature. So I can kind of hang out with the boys and I can also hang out with the girls and kind of blend and also read the room. But I'm also like again, I like I'll kick down a door to be able to have a conversation. That isn't to knock the other personality types that don't do that, right? I also firmly believe that there are incredible tacticians in this room and outside of this room that are far better than myself, but maybe, you know, aren't on stages or maybe don't have the opportunity to like bust through the room and say, "Hey, this is my name. I'll change your life and your business."

12:06So, what I'll say is like I think there's room to get uncomfortable. I also have to double tap on one more thing, too. I do think it's also an advantage to be a female in this space. There are so many men here. Like you guys are a hyper-saturated market. You guys are all very similar and it's very hard for you. >> [laughter] >> You're all wearing the same outfit. You all look the same. >> What do you mean, white beard? Huh? What are you talking about?

12:32Speaking of sneakers. >> Look, if you're in finance, you're wearing a Patagonia like fit, you know, there's like a stereotype. >> a man bun. >> Yeah, but you know what? As a female, like for the for the women who are trying to to break through, just know that you are the special one in the room that has the opportunity. Like just kill it. Just go, introduce yourself, and then really get uncomfortable because the men in the same room are getting uncomfortable. Not everybody is the same personality type. Not everybody is super outgoing. Some of you are more shy.

13:02Look, we press buttons to make money. Like not everybody is the same, but if it's a gender thing, I just want to break that norm a little bit and go, "Hey, like you're in this room. You're supposed to be in this room. Like make it worth it." So. >> You know, I actually thought of one more thing on this question. >> [snorts] >> I think one thing that personally I've tended to do throughout my career and I just based on like conversations with people I've worked with, friends.

13:28I I feel like women are more likely to take advice, especially from their managers or from people up the chain, at face value. And it's it's kind of the the whole idea of like, would you take advice from someone whose life you wouldn't want to live? is something that like I don't think a lot of women question enough. and it's What what you come to realize in your career is that sometimes that advice isn't always coming from like a a place of good faith. It's like sometimes you're you know, you're all at >> Am I getting played?

14:05>> Not not even that not even that someone's trying to sabotage you, but it's like someone's taking out their insecurities on you or the you're at a company and it's kind of like a shrinking pie and it's just like people are trying to beat you into a specific mold where like it might be the right thing to do to progress at a given company, but it's not the right thing to do for like your long-term career trajectory. So I think being able to to second-guess that and kind of like reconnect with your values is something that I think it's it's important for everyone, but I definitely feels like an issue that women I speak to experience more.

Risks and Lessons

14:47>> Okay, Alex, what's one risk that you took that paid off and maybe one that didn't? >> I think the risk that I took that paid off was going going out on my own and starting my consultancy because I never would have expanded outside of the fashion industry so quickly and like with so much variety if I had never done that. When you're in when you're like on a traditional career path, it's very much about building a specific narrative about, you know, experience in this industry and with this these specific roles. And I I love the fact that my job now lets me like spread my wings a little bit to use a cliche.

15:30I think a risk that I took that did not pay off is you won't find this on my LinkedIn, but I >> [laughter] >> I actually did take a role that I got late Well, I got fired from. I got fired from in like 3 months because there was just like total the role was misrepresented and I wasn't it was like a they were basically looking for someone to kind of like conjure traffic out of thin air for free with like very limited resources, and I wasn't able to give them what they wanted, and then they were also just very it was like a very oddly political environment, but that's like working in media. That's why I got out of that line of business. So, you I think that the the reason I wound up in that situation was because I I didn't view job hunting as a negotiation. It was kind of like the first thing came along, and they gave you the offer, and it seemed like a a jump in title or whatever, and you're

16:35like, "Well, I can handle it." And you're not thinking about it as >> You didn't really like pull through it and like >> Yeah. >> really truly align with me, you know? >> Yeah. >> What about you? >> I take a lot of risks in general. I like to look at every single risk, failure or not. I don't even look at it as failure. Like it's just a learning thing. I truly truly mean that. I think the biggest risk I ever took was like trying to start a first-party data attribution platform as a female A, and B, like completely bootstrapped, and nobody knew who I was, and >> attribution in general.

17:13>> Just attribution in general. I I saw anybody really talking about it the way I felt about it. I also was a tactician, so for me I felt like a lot of these platforms were built for, I would say, the founder swiping the credit card hoping the tacticians would solve their issues. And I saw a need and I wanted to fill it. and I it was a great risk cuz I learned a lot. I continuously I I felt like it really was a clock in for me and a walk in rather.

17:42But the risk I think the only risk that didn't pay off is I took a job one time to go to Guangzhou and Hong Kong. So like basically I I went just on a whim similar to you Alex. Like I was it was misrepresented and this was back in the day where I wasn't like, "Hell no, I'm not doing this." This was like, "Oh, you're paying me X amount? Yeah, I need that in my bank account."

18:03And it was the worst decision I ever made, but it also taught me a lesson to like put my foot down on what I am willing to do. but anyways, it was 4 weeks abroad and just crazy, but yeah. >> I think the biggest learning for me is that it's like it's never truly over. Like the thing that you think is the biggest up in your life, you'll [laughter] you know, you'll move past it and then a year from then you'll be like the actually thank thank goodness that happened.

18:34>> Yeah. Blessing in disguise. >> Yeah.

Marketing Trends Now

18:38>> What is something that you like won't shut up about in marketing right now? Like if you had to pick one one trend and one thing. >> TikTok shop. >> Why? >> Why? >> Yeah. >> I just feel like we're all sleeping on it. I think if any of you guys tuned into the like e-com cowboy podcast that we did that's live on Twitter plug. I would just got back from TikTok shop summit. I saw a couple of you there and it felt like the early days of meta and I was like, "Holy there's something here." And I was like buzzing about it because there wasn't a lot of funding yet, there wasn't a lot, but the numbers were crazy. And I started to see like not everyone's nailed it. I mean if this the few that have are really pressing in, and you know, just if you do your own analysis on whatever attribution platform you have, run a bit of traffic to your site, and look at the percentage of new visitors

19:30to your site, and then start to look at your meta side, and if you're seeing like a reduction in new visitors to site from meta, and what I am seeing on TikTok, you're going to get excited. There's a huge engaged audience on there that we're not tapping into. Some of us are like, "That's not my thing. I'm not going to It's lame. It's stupid." Okay, well then I'm going to come in and swoop in and and try to like lock in so then it becomes something significant because I've seen some huge brands kill.

20:00>> Yes, not all dances. There is dollars >> Not all dances. >> There's dollars that can be made there. What about you, Alex? >> Mine is kind of related. I would say just like organic short-form video in general and the Yapper format specifically, which is is basically like a thing that originated on TikTok, and there's a lot of overlap with the people who are really successful on TikTok Shop and like that format. I actually did the Cut 30 boot camp at the beginning of the year because I Before this year, like I barely used TikTok at all, which I'm a little a bit ashamed to admit, but like I'm so like I still read a paper book every night to help myself fall asleep. So like I was so >> That's good for your sleep hygiene, though.

20:47>> I know. The the whole like short-form video thing was such a foreign concept to me even as a consumer. So like really it just throwing myself into the deep end and going on TikTok and Instagram and trying to get impressions and getting like a real handle on how high the bar is for earning people's attention and what type of content works and what doesn't. Even if you never plan on getting on camera in your life, I think doing a boot camp like that just to like tangibly understand it is one of the the highest value things that you can do with the way that that media is going.

Mentors and Door Openers

21:27>> Who are people that maybe like open doors for you and how can we create more of those pathways for like other people? Like who are who are people that you think like if you could think back definitively like helped change where you're at? >> That you know that's such a hard question to answer. I think I've had some really good female mentors in all of my different roles. Like my first boss what So I actually started my career as a fashion designer like >> Cool.

22:00>> way way back in the day but she was like the VP of the team that I was working for and she she gave me a lot of good advice and like really helped me think things through within that organization. I I had another mentor like that when I was in my first digital marketing role. then as I got into my mid-career that kind of that that kind of support became a little sparse. and I'd say it's actually like I'm fortunate that there is an online community in the DTC space because it's a lot easier to connect with people who have you know they have a variety of experiences. They're they've done the things that you're considering doing. so I'd say that's where I turn to now for the most part.

22:50>> How about you? >> So I have the craziest story. I think this is the best way for me to answer this. I was working at an agency and I was just doing paid media as was director of paid media then. And I go on because iOS 14.5 had just hit and I go on Facebook in this like little group called Ad Leaks and I go live and I just start, honestly, just venting. I'm like, "Hey, this Wall Street Journal article, blah blah blah, this is what I'm doing, what are you doing?"

23:19And this guy named Chad Wilton went into my inbox and changed my life in the weirdest way. And he hit me up and he's like, "Hey, I really want you to speak at this conference called AdWorld, which is like a I don't know if any of you know about it." And I was like, "Okay, cool." Did it and it got really great feedback. And then I was able to meet, you know, the next thing I know, I'm on a plane to Dubai and I meet Shaq.

23:44And then I meet all these really cool people, which have, I mean, Shaq's a big reason, I mean, opened up so many doors, but I think with that opportunity, I knew I had to like rise to the occasion every single time. And really execute. Like, this is your shot kind of a moment, right? Like, you always have to execute. I also believe that all of you who pay money to attend these types of events should get the most value. So, I really take a lot of time and effort behind it, but Shaq and certain people, and then there's one mentor I have, his name is Edward Valdez, and he changed my life because he really grounded me to know and remind me like who I am and your ethics and your morals are something you can't ever take back. And that really shaped it.

24:23He's like, "You're allowed to be aggressive. You're allowed to be a partner in the room." That really shifted it, too, for me. So, instead of being a master tactician, so for the tacticians in the room, I approach a founder or agency partner, I go, "Hey, look, I'm your partner." So, I look at it from a different perspective and that changed everything. He brought that to the table. He's like, "Think about profitability. Don't think about when your next PTO day is, right?" It really shifts your mindset. And ever since then, those people just paved the way for me and really changed so much and I'm very grateful. So, yeah.

Outdated Beliefs

24:58>> our last question, I guess, would be before we open up to you guys would be what's a belief about women in business that you hope is potentially like completely outdated in 10 years? >> This. >> [laughter] >> Like the fact that there has to be a panel, yeah. >> I hope one day I I spoke to a few women here, actually, and they were like, "Wow, there's not that many women." And I started laughing cuz I'm like, "This is the most amount of women I've seen at this at these types of events in a really long time."

25:33So, I hope in 10 years we're not up here talking about this. Truly. >> Yeah, just talking about marketing. >> Yeah, she's laughing like, I hope one day it's like, "Damn, she's great, he's great, same caliber, same metrics, same everything." I don't have to sit there and tell you guys don't be creepy. I don't have to tell you 80% of you are awesome. I don't want this conversation anymore. I just want us to all kill it and make money and do well and be good people. So, I think that's my desire.

26:05>> Alex? Yeah, I don't have anything to add to that. I think Phoenix kind of nailed it.

Audience Q&A

26:13>> All right, do you guys have any questions for us or for any of the ladies on the panel? >> Would Would you prefer to work with a female founder or a male founder? >> Male. >> Why? >> This is not the case for everyone. If we're going to be real honest, right? Can we get like super real for a minute? >> Yeah, I mean, were you not real this whole time or what? Was that fake or what, dog?

26:36>> She was lying. She was lying. >> WHAT ARE YOU DOING? >> I'M TRYING [laughter] TO ENGAGE PEOPLE, GUYS. FOR the people who stayed, I'm like really proud. I was actually expecting everyone to like peace out cuz they're like, "This isn't making me money." look, often in my experience female founders have been more competitive with me rather than let's work together. A lot of male founders have been like, "Okay, what do you know and help me?"

26:59and that's unfortunate. That's not always the case. There's exceptions to every rule. This is my experience. And what I would conclude it to, again, in my experience is that there are only a certain amount of seats and who's going to take the seat? And it becomes like who's the smartest person in the room? And I think society has built us to be more competitive towards one another rather than like, "Hell yeah." I think you can be a girl's girl until it inconveniences you. And I don't want that. So, to bluntly answer that, male founders.

27:33>> I don't really look at it that way. and I feel like some of these questions are a little bit like like walking on the edge of a knife for something. I I don't know. For me personally, there hasn't really been a pattern between male and female I've worked with. I I look for situations where the team or the person I'm working with is is kind of like values aligned because my whole thing is that it's no best practices. It's like I'm not promising that I can come in hit hit a plug-and-play tactic and transform the business overnight. It's a more personalized and and thoughtful approach and there So, it's more about finding people who align with that approach. I which in my experience hasn't been a like a male or a female thing.

28:25>> Cool. >> There was a question behind you, though. >> Yeah, I had a question. You talked about feminine masculine and energy. I'm curious, what do you think is a pretty generalizing question, but what do you think men get overlooked the most about business? I Personal example, my wife taught me a great lesson of like you can't push a rope. >> That they can't be creative. >> [laughter] >> No, like I think like some of my best like even graphic designers are some of my most creative people like like sometimes I'm surprised it comes out of them and then I'm like is it you or is it cuz you're a guy but yeah.

29:05I think creativity. >> Like as an overlooked asset or is an overlooked thing that guys just don't get on average? >> I think that I kind of for some reason that my the best creatives that I've ever worked with seem to tend to be female and so when I meet a really creative male, it's it always shocks me for me personally. >> Wait, I have a question for you. Did you mean like where are the holes we fill or we see in the business?

29:37>> Like what what are the biggest blind spots that men typically have about business? >> Oh, oh, oh. >> So different for every person. So so different. >> Again, I like I don't think that's a gender thing. I think there's an assumption on the other end like that the woman is going to be the one that finds the things on the detail side, right? Cuz there's this assumption and most I get it that our women are more detail oriented or process oriented or creative oriented but it really isn't the case. I might see something and be like no, this is your biggest issue and it has everything to do with your LTV and right? So it's a fair question but yeah.

30:15>> I would say that this is this is kind of a a weird one but there are certain things within marketing in general and within like the deeper psychological motivations of what resonates with you with a with a certain brand where like the the median man and the median women women are drawn to different things and when male founders are marketing products to women. Sometimes they'll go into it with kind of like based on the the things that personally excite or activate them. even to the the level of detail of like I saw this this ad or this campaign that's gender neutral and I thought this was really cool. Like sending it around is something to emulate. But the reason it caught that guy's attention was because it spoke to some of like those masculine attributes.

31:11even though it wasn't explicitly being marketed to men, but it wouldn't apply to like a a female audience necessarily. So it's the same goes in reverse, but there are just fewer women trying to market to men in in my experience, but it's like you always the things that excite you on the market are always coming through your personal frame of reference, which which is biased. So like before you before you say like this really popped out to me, therefore it must be good, you kind of have to take a step back and like examine that aspect of it.

31:49>> I have a question. In a conversation full of men, particularly very loud that non-stop talk, how do you make your way to that conversation? >> Wait, so let me make sure everybody heard, too. So in like basically how do you make sure your voice is heard over the guys in the room? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I mean talk If they interrupt you, inter- I interrupt them. And make sure like just be a little bit louder.

32:20I grew up in a Hispanic family, so if you weren't [laughter] loud, you didn't get fed, you didn't get heard, so you made it sure you were loud. >> [laughter] >> I love passion. however, I like manners. So I'm not afraid, Alyssa, if that's a situation to go, "Hey, hold up. Let me speak. I have an opinion, too." I think like and like I like to check them. Like I'm I like to match energy. So, I think a lot of what we have to do is we have to read the room, right?

32:53That's regardless of gender, read the room. You want to have a conversation with somebody, read them. If they're high energy, maybe match that high energy or be patient and wait. I am struggling with and I am working on not checking out of conversations that don't match my energy, right? So, for me, if I'm meeting somebody here that's super passionate about what they do, but they maybe don't know how to contain it and they talk over me, I'll wait a little bit, but I'll be like, "All right, you know what? There's something there." And I'll I'll check in. But, I don't think you should ever check out because it's too much, unless it is draining, right? You can't do it, but >> Do you find you like give up in in the conversation like if they are talking over you? Like do you find yourself being like, "Never mind, this is like not worth my energy."

33:39>> My husband says this best and I'm going to like just say it. You can have this conversation without me. If that's a conversation you're having with [clears throat] somebody, then check out, right? Like if they could have had this conversation without you there, bye. Like we don't need to have this. But, if they are trying to convey something and maybe their communication style isn't the same as yours, a little more patience. Now, if they're insulting, that's a different that's a different scenario. Yeah.

34:03>> Solid. >> I was just going to kind of add Excuse me, to the conversation that the gentleman over here asked about women finding blind spots that men can't see. I don't have any data to support this, but just the immediate thought that came to my mind is that I would actually look at where the majority of consumers actually lie in the marketplace because I would challenge that the majority of people clicking buy on these websites could be primarily be female. Because when you look at like a the structure of a family unit, I mean, these guys sell bootylicious high protein muffins.

34:35And they're in the grocery stores. >> Hey, he could want a bootylicious >> He could want a the man the male does. It's you guys are all males, right? I mean, you do. [laughter] But who's walking down the aisles of the grocery store that's putting things in the basket? The female. So like if you're a male-dominant business, but you have a female who's actually purchasing on your website, like you have to be able to speak to that psychological level of what's causing the female to make the purchase in the first place. And I I had them in store at one point, but 75% of our purchases were females shopping on behalf of, you know, their spouse, their son, whatever. So that would just be from like an internal business perspective is like if you have female buyers, but you're a primarily male-based company, like not disregarding that that might be something that is a messaging, a copy and angle that's missing in your marketing that you could really unlock that could really open up

35:28opportunities. So. >> Oh, that's cool. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. Yeah. Alyssa, will you hand it to him right there, please? No, can you hand the speaker box, please, to the individual to your left? >> So, who's a female marketer that you want to give flowers to that you think is criminally under followed and doesn't get the love they deserve? >> Right now, well, I don't think she's under followed, but Emma Grede. If you guys don't know who she is, she's like the CEO of Good American and Skims. Yeah, she's she just released a book, but she's incredible and she should be like everybody in this room should be following her.

36:05>> What what was the name again? >> Emma Grede. >> Okay. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Amazing. >> All right, here's my list. I love Amanda Goetz who you introduced me to. She's great. So I really like her. >> too. She's getting finally Okay, sorry. >> Yeah. I'm joking, but Amanda Goetz is incredible. She actually helped launch the Alex Earl brand. Earl Actives or real actives? Real actives. and then there was a strategist that was working with me. Her name is Shelby and Dufour. She actually just got married and it's Rock now. One of the best tacticians I've ever met in my life. She's just not one of those people that wants to be on stage.

36:44Fair, right? Taylor Minard, which is, you know, everyone in this room probably knows Jordan Minard. But Taylor Minard is a beast. Like I've never met someone who can get creatives to the degree that she can with her brain. and I give my flowers to her every day. I'm an honored to be able to work with her. There are so many, but I would say those three. >> I think there's also I think Andrea who she makes the the snacks shot on Twitter. She she she drops it's it's got her name is It's Andrea, but she drops crazy good content. Savannah Sanchez does a go. She's OG on that. She won't do she she doesn't do too many speakers events as often. and there's a couple other ones. And it's Look, it was

More Women in the Room

37:27difficult to to to find quality people that want to jump to find quality women that want to jump on stage, share, leave the family, and to get out here. Like it's not as easy. Like I've been in the event space for 11 plus years and everyone's always like, "Yo, where are the girls?" Like you're a girl. Bring more. Like why didn't you bring like three of them? I'll give you as many tickets as you possibly can, but it seems very difficult to find many people that can leave their place. And it's not it's not because we don't want to do it.

37:52It's not because you guys don't want to be here. Like, "Yo, we have like responsibilities. We have we need to do." This is why most of events are filled with men. Any thoughts on this? How how do you get more women in the room do you think? >> Well, you said it. Like drag your girlfriends. Like there's And most of the time they're like, "But they're all dudes." Like for the guys that are a little bit more outgoing here, maybe if you're open to it and I understand like you're here for business and you're here for yourself.

38:18Like I get that. But if you're open to it and you have a little capacity, open the door, right? Open the circle when you're talking. Don't turn your back in the circle. Often, what's really interesting in the conversations, you might not notice this, is we'll be talking to someone and then you'll turn your back on them because you want to do business with another person and you ice somebody out. Like, that's not cool, right? So, open the circle. I think in terms of you, like you always hit me up, you're like, "Yo, do you have anybody that wants to speak? Like, I need more female speakers." I try to drag my girls up here and they don't want it.

38:49>> Yeah, we need to help ourselves a little bit, too. Like, I have so many female founders who when I told them, like, "Hey, you know, they're looking for people to speak here." They were like, "We're in. We're in. We're in. We're in." And then when it comes around, like when the time comes around to like really double down and say, >> Are you in? >> Are you in? They're like, "Well." And I think like some of it is also like, me, I should challenge my friends, too, and be like, be about it, you know? You can't just talk about it. Like, show up.

39:17>> 100%. >> I'll just add my perspective because this is actually like the first event I've done since my first daughter was born and she's four. figuring out the logistics of like how to get here. >> [laughter] >> For sure. >> to watch my kid was >> Bring it. >> a huge part of it and I was I was fortunate that like they're both, you know, they're both old enough and I was able to tell my husband like a couple months in advance and like I really want to do that. Like, let's figure out a way to make this work, but I feel like I wish there were more events locally that I could do, but I know that that's not, you know, the best answer. they like sometimes the time commitment to do one of these conferences can be it doesn't seem like a lot if this is, you know, your your typical routine, but I think for a lot of women there's just a lot of other things going on.

40:09>> I appreciate that, but regardless, it's

Closing Thanks

40:11a it's a real important conversation that I want to continue to facilitate and thank you guys for representing and joining us today. This is Liz, Phoenix, and Alex. Thank you guys so much. >> Thanks for listening. >> Thank [applause] you.